"Everyone is important and everyone should have a voice" — Interview with Michael Astle

how i contract interview Aug 09, 2023

We have had the great pleasure to interview Michael Astle, Executive Director, Legal Affairs who "leads a fabulous team of legal professionals, handling contracts, privacy, corporate, disputes, and property work for Quotient Sciences."

This interview is part of the How I Contract interview series with experienced contract lawyers and professionals which aims to become a source of inspiration, support, and advice for new lawyers and professionals.

Dive in!

Michael, thank you for doing this interview! Let’s start by getting to know you a little bit more. Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path? How did you learn contracts?

I first came across contracts when I was a partner in a small relocation business in Spain, helping folks find homes and businesses for their move to the sun.

We used to have a rental agreement template where we would ‘fill in the blanks’…Over time I got to learn more about the clauses in the agreement as various events happened and I was fascinated by how they all worked together to define the parameters of the relationship.

This, alongside my interactions with lawyers in my role as a business owner, showed me how being a lawyer and working with contracts can be so interesting and multi-faceted.

What should lawyers and professionals do to get better at contract drafting and negotiation?

Two main tips:

Understand the practical effect of clauses. For example, if your client is asking your colleagues to undertake training before working on their project, what are the consequences of this seemingly innocent provision? You’d need to know how many colleagues will work on the project, how long the training is, and how much that collective labor will be. Then you decide if that is appropriate given the potential revenue from the contract.
When it comes to negotiation, it is important to understand what your counterparty wants, not just the edits they are trying to include. There may be a number of ways of giving them the comfort they need, but by offering different text which you are also comfortable with. The key to this is to understand their needs. You can do this by asking them “Why is this important to you?”

What principles do you use when leading a team of legal professionals handling contracts?

I have two mantras which I like my team to follow:

95% is usually fine. Unless there is a ‘bet the house’ issue, getting to 95% of perfect quickly is normally much better than getting to 100% slowly.
Explain ‘why’ in your redlines. If your counterparty understands your edits better, they can more easily accept them or offer a useful compromise. Redlines without comments are unhelpful and prolong negotiations unnecessarily. Nada Alnajafi is a trailblazer in this area.

What is your #1 legal team management tip?

Everyone is important and everyone should have a voice. In our team meetings, we all make time to hear each other’s opinions, no matter the colleague’s position or seniority.

This breeds inclusivity, cohesion, and teamwork…as well as provides useful perspectives. It is part of the O Shaped mindset which we endeavor to follow at Quotient.

How do you help your team learn contracts? What’s your process?

We have 3 key tools:

A Playbook with our positions on key clauses
A Checklist of items we want in our contracts before they are signed – so nothing is missed.
Parallel review. If I am helping a colleague with their redline I’ll do a quick parallel review of the agreement before talking through their redline with them to ensure nothing important has been missed.

How do you help your team handle mistakes they make in contracts?

My team knows there are 3 topics we must address in our customer contracts. Apart from those, we can sign if needed, even if others are missed.

So, no need to go heavy-handed or get worked up if they are omitted. We just work to ensure they are picked up next time.

How do you help your team deal with imposter syndrome?

We have discussions around confident writing, so leaving out ‘I think’, ‘just’, ‘maybe’, and similar phrases which suggest insecurity.

We also talk about consequences – i.e. ‘what is the worst that can happen if you get something wrong?’…the answer normally is not much that can’t be fixed.

With that in the back of our minds, it hopefully gives us the confidence to do our best without anxiety.

What are the top three things contract lawyers and professionals need to pay attention to when working in a team?

Understand the scope of the deal from the outset, so you know which template, how much time to spend etc.
Know the key risks. For example, if we are buying, then can we get out of the deal if the vendor does not deliver their end of the bargain? An easy ‘out’ is generally a more effective solution for the business than endless KPIs or SLAs which need to be negotiated, tracked, and executed.
Who can have your back? We see a huge variety of contracts, so [we need to have someone] who can help us understand the nuances and peculiarities of the one in front of us.

How do you help the business learn about contracts?

We have three tools which help:

We deliver commercial awareness training to our sales and other mid-senior level colleagues.
We schedule ‘intro to legal’ calls with new starters so they know the basics and how to contact us.
We give relatively open access to our contracts repository. This democratized access encourages self-service and healthy dialogue.

Could you share the biggest lesson you’ve learned managing a team of legal professionals?

Giving room to grow is important.

Colleagues new to the team are often nervous about some topics, such as delivering training or negotiating with clients over Teams. By giving them support alongside independence to do it themselves, we help them really blossom very quickly. It is very rewarding to see.

If you could give just one contract tip, what would that be?

Explain your redlines! This is your opportunity to persuade, inform, cajole – don’t lose it!

Could you share the biggest lesson you’ve learned in contracts?

Know where you can add value.

You can spend hours reviewing Ts and Cs from behemoths like Microsoft, Salesforce, or your Bank or utilities provider. But these are likely cast in stone so there is little value you can add…

Instead, spend time where you deliver something tangible – client or other supplier contracts where you have room and leverage to negotiate.

What you are most proud of in your contracts journey?

I’m most proud of one of my first contracting experiences.

I was a trainee at a financial services firm which was going through a complex restructuring. It was my first time reading these long corporate transaction documents and I was doing it out of curiosity rather than adding any legal expertise.

However, I had worked in the operations part of the business previously so I knew the company inside out.

As I was reading the 100+ page transaction document I noticed a clause which would have triggered an almost instant default after signing if we had not caught it….

It was my operations knowledge rather than any legal nous which shone through. But it felt good and taught me the need to understand the business as well as the law.

What is your favorite work of art depicting lawyers and/or contracts, if any? Why?

Everything Counts by Depeche Mode. The lyrics are fabulous, as is the tune: Depeche Mode – Everything Counts Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

Who were your mentors you are grateful to? What did you learn from them?

Laura Frederick for the clarity she brings to clauses.

Simon Lee, not a lawyer, but someone with extensive contracts experience who has been happy and patient to share it with me.

What advice would you give to your younger self when you started working with contracts?

Just saying ‘no’ or deleting a clause is pointless and just adds extra rounds of review. Instead, add an explanation and offer a solution or compromise where you can.